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“We are not bigots,” prop 8 supporters say. “We just want everyone to believe what we believe.”

1 June, 2009

from The LA Times

In Fresno, about 3,000 demonstrators — the same number who turned out the day before on the other side — were told not to accept being called bigots because they support traditional marriage.

“We know we’ve been called hate-mongers. That’s not what we are,” said Jim Franklin, pastor of Cornerstone Church, just after the rally.

“We are people who believe in our values.”

The one thing I have always noticed about people who cling to their Bibles, as our president might put it, is that everyone has a different interpretation of the “good book.”   If God is on their side (which ever side needs him at the moment, he is always on their side), doesn’t he want them to go after those Mormons who believe in polygamy?   Doesn’t he want them to save all those traditional marriages that are falling apart?    I don’t recall him telling Adam and Eve that they could divorce. Start an anti-divorce measure for god’s sake.

Where is their crusade against adultery?  against coveting (desiring in your heart, ie, not the deed but the thought) another’s goods or wife or husband.   Why do they not gather in the thousands to protest the slaying of a man who performed abortions by one of their own.  Did their god not say to them “Thou shalt not kill?.”

The God of the New Testament preached Love, Hope and Charity and asked you to follow in his footsteps. He was tolerant, he treated all equally. he wanted to build his kingdom according to his plan, not the “values” of men. Who can look into their heart and say they follow the word of God faithfully, constantly, and honestly?

“It’s the will of God to protect marriage. . . . We will be victorious because God goes before us.”

Our forefathers, those stuffy old pilgrims, believed that the only way to tell if god had “Saved” you was that you became rich. The hung Quackers, drove out those who disagreed with them, killed the natives who lived in that land, and they did it all for “religious” freedom.   I guess not much has changed.

If a gay or lesbian couple wants to get married, let them.  Whatever God’s plan is I doubt that he has shared it all with you.  Let him sort it out.

You should tend to the mote in your own eye.

17 Comments leave one →
  1. Jesse permalink
    2 June, 2009 21:15

    Where is the crusade against adultery? Coveting? Abortion? I can assure you that these battles are raging on day by day. At least in my faith, our leaders are constantly teaching the words of Christ in relation to those topics. They are constantly encouraging us to live better lives, free of all things that detract from the gospel of Christ.

    Christ is indeed the Great Preacher of Love, Hope, and Charity. If He were still living in the mortal flesh this day, He would be preaching exactly what He has preached since the beginning of time: faith, repentance, baptism, and the beautiful gift of the Holy Ghost. Central to His plan of happiness is marriage between a man and a woman. I know this to be true, and I testify that this is the one true path to genuine peace and happiness.

    God bless.

    • 2 June, 2009 21:15

      I am happy that you have found your path to peace and happiness, but you do not answer my main concern. Why must you interfere with the paths that others have chosen. Let them make their own choices as you perhaps have. The state should not be run by religion or the religious beliefs of others. Preach and teach if you feel you must, but do not mandate that others follow your beliefs, lest you become a tyranny.

  2. Jesse permalink
    2 June, 2009 21:15

    Well then by that reason do you also believe that alcohol should be available to anyone who wants it? Or that domestic abuse should go unpunished? These acts, which damage society, have been outlawed. So, too, should be same-sex ‘marriage’ as it also will have a negative affect on society.

    • 2 June, 2009 21:15

      Jesse: society can be damaged by many people, but a marriage in and of itself will not damage a strong society. A straight male may abuse his wife, a lesbian may abuse her partner, an unmarried couple can rob a bank, a straight woman can drive while talking on her cell phone and cause an accident that kills someone. You do not seem to be able to separate your prejudice from criminal activity. Our society will survive only if all its citizens are respectful of ALL law-abiding citizens
      (assuming that law is made by people to curtail actual rather than imagined crime).

      The only people who can’t drink alcohol legally are those that society has deemed to young to make safe decisions. There is no analogy to consenting adults who chose a different path than yours.

      • Jesse permalink
        2 June, 2009 21:15

        That’s just it: same-sex relationships are not the same as marriage. I realize that this is a fundamental differing belief among proponents and opponents of same-sex ‘marriage.’ For me and other opponents, it’s not just a matter of allowing someone their agency to choose and act for themselves. It’s a matter of protecting society from what we believe is a great hindrance to its well-being.

  3. 2 June, 2009 21:15

    Hi Jesse. I’m just wondering how you can associate alcohol and domestic abuse — acts that, as you say, are damaging to society — with allowing gays and lesbians to marry? Isn’t divorce damaging to society as well? Then why aren’t people marching down the streets protesting against it? Have we not seen the damage divorce has brought on the children whose lives have been disrupted and affected by it?

    I think that like most things and issues, we all have the right to our opinion. However, this does not mean that we should be judgmental. Didn’t the Bible say that he who is sinless cast the first stone? Why then should you — or anybody else for that matter — condemn?

    Thanks Catsden for this post. It may just be another blogpost or commentary but every voice that speaks about this — to educate or otherwise — is an effort to lessen and diminish hate and prejudice in the world.

    • 2 June, 2009 21:15

      crankyceiagurl, you are more than welcome.

    • Jesse permalink
      2 June, 2009 21:15

      Yes, divorce is damaging to society. As I mentioned in my first comment, we are in fact doing things to try and help husbands and wives overcome problems in their marriage instead of resorting to divorce.

      • 2 June, 2009 21:15

        How does same sex marriage damage society? At least they don’t try to force their religious beliefs on everyone else. Just because YOU believe doesn’t make it true for the other millions of people in the world. Your blind arrogance is an example of the damage done by many believers.

        • Jesse permalink
          2 June, 2009 21:15

          I have a strong belief that it damages and is not good for society. I do not mean to offend any specific person when I say things like this. I am only attacking the relationship itself of a man and a man or a woman and a woman. Please, try to distinguish between those two things.

          I am sorry if I portray arrogance. My words come from the teachings of Jesus Christ, He who knows all. Where is your belief that homosexual relationships are the same as marriage taken from?

          • 2 June, 2009 21:15

            It is the specific person you damage when you say things like this. You believe and you want everyone to believe as you do. I have no problem with your beliefs, only with the idea that you think that gives you the right to legislate what others believe. However, I have known enough people like you who can not specify what damage you think is done and will constantly refer back to you personal view of the Christ to respond. Not all Christians believe as you do, however, and if you have no room for that thought there is no room for discussion. Let’s end this conversation. I have better things to do than to argue with someone whose mind is closed. Thank you for your comments, though; I am happy to allow others to express and live their personal beliefs.

          • Jesse permalink
            2 June, 2009 21:15

            I’m sorry that we couldn’t understand each other better. The main reason I originally responded was to your implication that Jesus Christ would accept homosexuals relationships as marriage. I just want to add my testimony that I do not believe He would do such a thing. Equal to the breadth of love that He possesses is His intolerance of sin.

            Thanks and God bless.

          • Jackie permalink
            9 June, 2009 21:15

            I am positive that God made gay people just the way they are. This is not an accident, or a choice. Have you ever wondered if maybe how you treat people on this earth is a test to you in the after life? Maybe God wants to see how you treat his creations. And you all are doing a terrible job at this. Don’t believe everythign you read in the Bible. It has been written by a man, and translated into many different languages, throughout many years, and for a long time was passed down through oral tradition. To think that the bible we have today, is the same “word of God” is, well, you. Instead of worrying about what other people are doing, and who they are marrying. Maybe you should focus on yourself, and on being a better person. You condemn divorce, but do you outlaw it? How about we make a law saying no one can get married? Then everyone is treated equal. Or is this not fair because you are a straight person, and that would mean one of your God given rights is taken away. Shame on you, and shame on this society. Far worse problems are in our country, rather than gay people getting married. To hear you talk about this just proves the ignorance. And God help you in the end. I hope he does not condemn you for judging against His will and being a hateful person.

      • leigh permalink
        2 June, 2009 21:15

        no, put divorce on the ballot box and make it ILLEGAL!

        • 3 June, 2009 21:15

          Let’s carry it to absurdity, shall we: let’s make marriage illegal unless its sole purpose is procreation. Let’s insist on modesty, obedience, and appropriate public dress. Thee is so much more to add, but I think you get the idea. We should revert to all customs followed in the year of His birth.

          • Jesse permalink
            3 June, 2009 21:15

            Actually I don’t really get the idea of banning marriage unless its sole purpose is procreation. Do other religions only support marriage if it’s to procreate? I can speak for my religion by that procreation is only one of the many purposes of marriage, and it is not ‘required.’

          • 3 June, 2009 21:15

            Oh, you’re back, Jesse. I was just following the comment before you that wanted to ban divorce and, as I said, was taking it to the extreme absurdity. I don’t believe in banning marriage.

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